Comments on: Python, Java and the Mac http://blog.amber.org/2005/08/17/python-java-and-the-mac/ Thoughts of a minor lunatic Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:22:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: petrilli http://blog.amber.org/2005/08/17/python-java-and-the-mac/comment-page-1/#comment-2538 petrilli Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:38:54 +0000 http://blog.amber.org/?p=1754#comment-2538 I think what Apple realized is that the Java/Objective-C bridge was a pointless thing. Various people like "Aaron Hillegrass":http://www.bignerdranch.com/classes/instructors.shtml (author of the best books on MacOS X programming) have said similar things. Use Java, or use Objective-C, but blending the two, no matter how technically brilliant the effort, was a bastard child. I think what Apple realized is that the Java/Objective-C bridge was a pointless thing. Various people like Aaron Hillegrass (author of the best books on MacOS X programming) have said similar things. Use Java, or use Objective-C, but blending the two, no matter how technically brilliant the effort, was a bastard child.

]]> By: Paul http://blog.amber.org/2005/08/17/python-java-and-the-mac/comment-page-1/#comment-2536 Paul Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:04:26 +0000 http://blog.amber.org/?p=1754#comment-2536 Peter, Very sane points. I certainly don't think regular Java support will be going away. I also didn't mean to suggest that Apple somehow coordinated the two things, just that it's an interesting moment. Peter,

Very sane points. I certainly don’t think regular Java support will be going away. I also didn’t mean to suggest that Apple somehow coordinated the two things, just that it’s an interesting moment.

]]> By: Peter Herndon http://blog.amber.org/2005/08/17/python-java-and-the-mac/comment-page-1/#comment-2525 Peter Herndon Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:31:10 +0000 http://blog.amber.org/?p=1754#comment-2525 I think Paul's post takes the article too seriously. Yes, Apple posts these articles on their website, and doesn't attribute them, giving them a very "official" air. However, the span of article content suggests that Apple likes publishing Mac programming success stories that contain useful information, not that Apple itself is endorsing a particular methodology as the One, True Way. They've published stuff on just about every conceivable language, framework, or technology that can be used well and highlights the ease of programming on OS X. The facts that Apple has deprecated the Java-ObjC bridge, and also has published an article on PyObjC, have been conflated from the coincidence they really are. Yes, programming in Python (or Ruby) under OS X is easy. But the truth is that Python updates are not yet available from Software Update, while Java updates are. Until Apple reverses that situation, I don't think there's any significance to Apple's choice to publish Rentzsch's article, beyond that it is a great article. I think Paul’s post takes the article too seriously. Yes, Apple posts these articles on their website, and doesn’t attribute them, giving them a very “official” air. However, the span of article content suggests that Apple likes publishing Mac programming success stories that contain useful information, not that Apple itself is endorsing a particular methodology as the One, True Way.

They’ve published stuff on just about every conceivable language, framework, or technology that can be used well and highlights the ease of programming on OS X. The facts that Apple has deprecated the Java-ObjC bridge, and also has published an article on PyObjC, have been conflated from the coincidence they really are.

Yes, programming in Python (or Ruby) under OS X is easy. But the truth is that Python updates are not yet available from Software Update, while Java updates are. Until Apple reverses that situation, I don’t think there’s any significance to Apple’s choice to publish Rentzsch’s article, beyond that it is a great article.

]]> By: petrilli http://blog.amber.org/2005/08/17/python-java-and-the-mac/comment-page-1/#comment-2524 petrilli Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:04:12 +0000 http://blog.amber.org/?p=1754#comment-2524 Ah, that's a good, and difficult question. Some things I like from Python: * Indentation as block-delimeters. This reduces silly syntax noise. * The emphasis on trying to find one clear way to do everything However, from Ruby I love this: * Blocks * Smalltalk-style iterators * More robust object-model, if not anywhere near Smalltalk, or Lisp. It's a trade-off which I'd use. Python is "more established" and has better libraries. It also is _substantially_ better documented in my opinion -- largely due to its origin in attempting to teach languages. It's also, in my experience, faster, though that's often not a major issue. Honestly, I'm finding myself more interested in Ruby because of it's support of blocks and better iterator support. If they could eliminate its Perlisms, I'd be happy. Ah, that’s a good, and difficult question. Some things I like from Python:

  • Indentation as block-delimeters. This reduces silly syntax noise.
  • The emphasis on trying to find one clear way to do everything

    However, from Ruby I love this:

  • Blocks
  • Smalltalk-style iterators
  • More robust object-model, if not anywhere near Smalltalk, or Lisp.

    It’s a trade-off which I’d use. Python is “more established” and has better libraries. It also is substantially better documented in my opinion—largely due to its origin in attempting to teach languages. It’s also, in my experience, faster, though that’s often not a major issue.

    Honestly, I’m finding myself more interested in Ruby because of it’s support of blocks and better iterator support. If they could eliminate its Perlisms, I’d be happy.

]]> By: Troy Brumley http://blog.amber.org/2005/08/17/python-java-and-the-mac/comment-page-1/#comment-2523 Troy Brumley Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:41:50 +0000 http://blog.amber.org/?p=1754#comment-2523 The cost to Apple to support Java was probably relatively high. Given the apparent weakness of Sun and Java, it makes perfect sense to me. I haven't really done anything with Python or Ruby, other than read a couple of introductory tutorials. Which do you prefer, and why? The cost to Apple to support Java was probably relatively high. Given the apparent weakness of Sun and Java, it makes perfect sense to me. I haven’t really done anything with Python or Ruby, other than read a couple of introductory tutorials. Which do you prefer, and why?

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