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	<title>Comments on: zc.buildout, or Jim Fulton strikes again</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.amber.org/2008/03/04/zcbuildout-or-jim-fulton-strikes-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.amber.org/2008/03/04/zcbuildout-or-jim-fulton-strikes-again/</link>
	<description>Thoughts of a minor lunatic</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff Shell</title>
		<link>http://blog.amber.org/2008/03/04/zcbuildout-or-jim-fulton-strikes-again/#comment-51708</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.amber.org/2008/03/04/zcbuildout-or-jim-fulton-strikes-again/#comment-51708</guid>
		<description>I've used it. I haven't seen the screencast, so I can't comment on it. But I can summarize my experiences.

First - for development of small, 'standalone' packages, it's awesome. It makes it very easy to create one or more test environments, standalone interpreters, etc. It's great for trying out Eggs in a controlled environment. It's great for generating scripts from said eggs.

Basically it makes it easy to create a package that you can checkout / clone / download and use in a repeatable way immediately.

One case that I found interesting was when I was working on a package that had to speak to multiple database back-ends. With buildout and the 'testrunner' recipe, it was very easy to make 'test-sqlite', 'test-mysql', and 'test-postgres' scripts that loaded different eggs to support their respective databases. Having them be separate meant I could still run 'sqlite' tests on boxes where I didn't have the other environments installed.


There's not really any scary magic, but it can be a bit frustrating to work with. Most documentation is written in doctest style, which can waste 120 lines of example source and output to show the toggling of a single switch. It can be frustrating to work through. There are some PDFs, screencasts, etc, floating around, but they're not gathered in a cohesive place like a dedicated web site. A lot of the real power comes from the recipes, and the situation there is similar: documentation written in doctest format which doesn't always map to real-world uses. There aren't many documents (easily findable) that show how to work the different recipes together in real-world situations. The few documents that I can find that do that are dedicated to using Buildout with Plone or Grok.

But in general, I do think it's a really good tool. Many of my frustrations came from a unique (it seems) situation made worse by severe lack of time and the need to convert our entire code base to be distutils/setuptools based (not easily done piecemeal, particularly during the height of our busy season).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve used it. I haven&#8217;t seen the screencast, so I can&#8217;t comment on it. But I can summarize my experiences.</p>
<p>First &#8211; for development of small, &#8216;standalone&#8217; packages, it&#8217;s awesome. It makes it very easy to create one or more test environments, standalone interpreters, etc. It&#8217;s great for trying out Eggs in a controlled environment. It&#8217;s great for generating scripts from said eggs.</p>
<p>Basically it makes it easy to create a package that you can checkout / clone / download and use in a repeatable way immediately.</p>
<p>One case that I found interesting was when I was working on a package that had to speak to multiple database back-ends. With buildout and the &#8216;testrunner&#8217; recipe, it was very easy to make &#8216;test-sqlite&#8217;, &#8216;test-mysql&#8217;, and &#8216;test-postgres&#8217; scripts that loaded different eggs to support their respective databases. Having them be separate meant I could still run &#8216;sqlite&#8217; tests on boxes where I didn&#8217;t have the other environments installed.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s not really any scary magic, but it can be a bit frustrating to work with. Most documentation is written in doctest style, which can waste 120 lines of example source and output to show the toggling of a single switch. It can be frustrating to work through. There are some PDFs, screencasts, etc, floating around, but they&#8217;re not gathered in a cohesive place like a dedicated web site. A lot of the real power comes from the recipes, and the situation there is similar: documentation written in doctest format which doesn&#8217;t always map to real-world uses. There aren&#8217;t many documents (easily findable) that show how to work the different recipes together in real-world situations. The few documents that I can find that do that are dedicated to using Buildout with Plone or Grok.</p>
<p>But in general, I do think it&#8217;s a really good tool. Many of my frustrations came from a unique (it seems) situation made worse by severe lack of time and the need to convert our entire code base to be distutils/setuptools based (not easily done piecemeal, particularly during the height of our busy season).</p>
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